https://pantsbuild.org/ logo
#general
Title
# general
p

proud-dentist-22844

10/28/2022, 5:00 PM
Hi everybody - quick question on naming things. Please fill in the blank in the thread: GIven:
A imports B
• A depends on B • B is like the parent in the relationship • A is like the child in the relationship (think: things in A can subclass or inherit from things in B) • B is a
dependency
of A • A is a
___???___
of B What word/noun in English could replace
___???___
?
👀 1
s

sparse-lifeguard-95737

10/28/2022, 5:01 PM
consumer?
h

happy-kitchen-89482

10/28/2022, 5:01 PM
dependent
(today we use
dependee
for this, but that is apparently wrong)
w

witty-crayon-22786

10/28/2022, 5:03 PM
pants mostly uses
dependee
1
h

happy-kitchen-89482

10/28/2022, 5:04 PM
depender?
p

proud-dentist-22844

10/28/2022, 5:04 PM
Gentoo's package manager uses the phrase:
reverse dependency
or
revdep
w

witty-crayon-22786

10/28/2022, 5:04 PM
if we wanted to do a find-replace and deprecation in pants to
dependent
, i wouldn’t mind. i’ve mostly stuck with
dependee
for consistency with the rest of the codebase
…except there is no consistency apparently… they’re both widely used. oy.
b

bitter-ability-32190

10/28/2022, 5:06 PM
I think Bazel parlance has "rdep", so also reverse dependency
h

happy-kitchen-89482

10/28/2022, 5:07 PM
Yeah I’ve been using dependee all along, but it turns out to mean the opposite of what I thought…
w

witty-crayon-22786

10/28/2022, 5:07 PM
hm, no? it’s the right meaning, even according to your link… just an uncommon usage.
b

bitter-ability-32190

10/28/2022, 5:10 PM
Obviously IRS nomenclature says we should call A a
dependent
and B a
provider
. 🏆
w

wide-midnight-78598

10/28/2022, 5:19 PM
consumer
?
b

bitter-ability-32190

10/28/2022, 5:21 PM
My own joking aside. I prefer a word that is pneumonically similar to "dependency"
w

wide-midnight-78598

10/28/2022, 5:23 PM
apt
uses
rdepends
One would hope that if there is a noun used in a public API, the meaning would slap everyone in the face. While I get
dependee
because I think of
dependency
and then think what the opposite would be - it's not a word I use with any frequency in my day-to-day or in programming. Ditto for
dependant
or
depender
or
dependificator
.. Maybe dependant, actually (as a word I use re: taxes)
p

proud-dentist-22844

10/28/2022, 5:26 PM
Oh dear.
rdpends
would be very problematic for me because I use gentoo all the time: Gentoo portage uses
RDPENDS
for "runtime dependencies",
BDEPENDS
for "build dependencies (on the build host)",
DEPENDS
for "build dependencies (on the target host)", and
PDEPENDS
for "post dependencies (that should be installed after this one)" The difference between build/target host allows for cross-compilation - Gentoo is a source-based distro, so everything gets compiled from source.
w

wide-midnight-78598

10/28/2022, 5:26 PM
Damn you Gentooooo!!!!! 🙂
p

proud-dentist-22844

10/28/2022, 5:26 PM
I ❤️ gentoo. 🐮
w

wide-midnight-78598

10/28/2022, 5:30 PM
My point was more towards two similar sounding words. I'm semi-meh to the matter, but in this specific example - the relationship is that
A
is highly reliant on
B
, while
B
is ambivalent to
A
I've noticed when writing libs, the grammar tends to be
A
[verb {on}]
B
and
B
is a [noun] of
A
(just my personal experience). Even in this case, I would say "let's find all the `A`'s that rely on
B
p

proud-dentist-22844

10/28/2022, 5:33 PM
yup. Translating that verb vs noun usage into an API becomes rather odd though. Thus this thread 😛
w

wide-midnight-78598

10/28/2022, 5:35 PM
If we're in voting territory and want a d-sounding word, then status quo
dependee
for me.
c

curved-television-6568

10/28/2022, 5:36 PM
I like dependent, but not so much more than dependee that I think it worth the churn to rename stuff in Pants, if that’s a thing.. 😉
h

happy-kitchen-89482

10/28/2022, 8:00 PM
hm, no? it’s the right meaning, even according to your link… just an uncommon usage.
Nope, in that link a dependee is “the target of a dependency”, “the thing being depended on”
w

wide-midnight-78598

10/28/2022, 8:07 PM
Another one for the mix...
brew uses --installed blah
Show formulae and casks that specify formula as a dependency; that is, show
dependents of formula. When given multiple formula arguments, show the
intersection of formulae that use formula. By default, uses shows all
formulae and casks that specify formula as a required or recommended
dependency for their stable builds.
w

witty-crayon-22786

10/28/2022, 8:48 PM
@happy-kitchen-89482 :
Technical term, not widely used in software engineering outside of agent-oriented programming but finds some use. In agent-oriented programming the antonym is depender, though in general usage the common term dependent is used instead
i read that as “dependee is equivalent to depender or dependent”
p

proud-dentist-22844

10/28/2022, 8:55 PM
That sentence is awkward.
dependent
is used instead of what? The antonym
depender
(so depender=dependent)? or
dependee
the term being defined (so depndee=dependent)?
w

witty-crayon-22786

10/28/2022, 9:10 PM
@happy-kitchen-89482: hm. actually… yea, you’re right. so
dependee
probably is just strictly incorrect. we should fix that, heh.
so yea,
dependent
definitely seems like the least ambiguous, and we could probably open an issue to do a find-replace (and deprecation) there.
p

proud-dentist-22844

10/28/2022, 9:24 PM
s/deprecation/hide behind an alias/
w

witty-crayon-22786

10/28/2022, 9:35 PM
yep. very long deprecation.
h

happy-kitchen-89482

10/28/2022, 9:37 PM
They’re saying its the antonym, i.e., the opposite…
w

witty-crayon-22786

10/28/2022, 9:38 PM
yea, was a weird sentence… i see now.
the whole page is about something which i thought was already an antonym of
dependency
, so i parsed that as “here is another antonym”. aaaanyway.
h

happy-kitchen-89482

10/28/2022, 9:45 PM
I can put up an easy PR to fix this
And keep the aliases
w

witty-crayon-22786

10/28/2022, 9:45 PM
yes please.
c

curved-television-6568

10/28/2022, 10:09 PM
ok, cool. thx for digging into this. I’ve always had a hard time with this, and I can see why now, that it’s not just me 😛
h

happy-kitchen-89482

10/28/2022, 11:06 PM
No, it’s not just you 🙂
That PR changes internal uses, a followup will change external ones
So #17393 has no deprecation issues
w

wide-midnight-78598

10/28/2022, 11:07 PM
Question: With aliases - do they show up in Help (e.g. for completions?)
w

witty-crayon-22786

10/28/2022, 11:14 PM
yes: the original name does too, but as deprecated
c

curved-television-6568

10/29/2022, 10:28 AM
which aliases?
3 Views