starting a new thread to discuss having a retro during Pants

Question

starting a new thread to discuss having a retro during Pants team meetings previously floated here <https pantsbuild slack com archives C046T6T9U p1658168200926049 thread ts=1658167829 951119 amp cid=C046T6T9U>

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

as mentioned over there some of the current agenda items could be proposed dynamically via the retro particularly those that are not broadcasty so i think that adding a 30 or 45 minute retro to some of the team meetings can adjust frequency based on how useful it seems would be really helpful

bitter-ability-32190 · Answer

I m down

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

cc < hundreds father 404> < busy vase 39202> < curved television 6568> who chimed in in the previous thread

busy-vase-39202 · Answer

45 minutes of retro about a 60 90 minute meetup seems like rather a lot I see you mentioned doing it less frequently than every time But I wonder how useful it is to do a retro about a single meetup that took place 30 60 days ago

hundreds-father-404 · Answer

To clarify is it a retro about the last month of Pants development community Not a retro of the meeting itself

busy-vase-39202 · Answer

Keep in mind it s a meetup not a meeting It s meant to develop morale and team cohesiveness as much as inform It s not strictly intended to be business

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

gt To clarify is it a retro about the last month of Pants development community Not a retro of the meeting itself people can choose to discuss anything related to Pants but my expectation is that it would be mostly the first thing there will likely be less meta discussion

hundreds-father-404 · Answer

Cool then yeah I think that makes sense to do for 30 minutes or so

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

gt But I wonder how useful it is to do a retro about a single meetup that took place 30 60 days ago < busy vase 39202> the retro is not for the meeting itself rather for the work going on in the community since the previous retro

busy-vase-39202 · Answer

Ah good question Eric If it s about the project as a whole I suggest adding a quarterly separate meeting devoted to that Since the meetup is on the 3rd Monday of the month perhaps that around the 1st week of the quarter

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

gt Keep in mind it s a meetup not a meeting It s meant to develop morale and team cohesiveness as much as inform It s not strictly intended to be business imo structured discussion in the shape of a retro goes a long way toward understanding one another s feelings about things and building cohesiveness arguably more than presentations on various topics that s more of a meeting in my mind

busy-vase-39202 · Answer

Or every other month or whatever other pacing makes sense This just sounds like a distinctive need that needs quality time and tacking it onto the meetup would stretch the length beyond the average person s limit of 90 minutes max attention span

hundreds-father-404 · Answer

I think it could be useful every meeting for about 30 minutes A somewhat informal discussion of How do you feel about the last month Or this upcoming month I like that it invites many people to contribute not only the presenters

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

gt I like that it invites many people to contribute not only the presenters yea i think that this is important while a fixed agenda is definitely also important some amount of space for more free form discussion to build cohesiveness is sortof exactly what it sounds like this meeting is for

busy-vase-39202 · Answer

We ve been running about 1 15 length So arguably there s 15 minutes of bufffer time available for that If it needs to be longer it should have a dedicated meeting where it can be the focal point

hundreds-father-404 · Answer

I agree with capping meeting at 90 minutes Maybe we could limit presentations and planned discussions like deprecation policy to closer to 55 65 minutes so we have 25 35 for informal retro

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

< busy vase 39202> as mentioned above i think that some of the existing agenda items could be proposed in the retro instead discussion topics rather than presentations basically

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

for example from this past meeting i think that the deprecation discussion would have been a really good retro topic

busy-vase-39202 · Answer

I m rushing things along the whole time with an eye on the clock The meeting is as short as I m comfortable making it without marginalizing people who don t talk fast

bitter-ability-32190 · Answer

This topic matters a lot to me I think we could use more cross pollination and cohesion

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

< busy vase 39202> a relevant analogy here is to an a retro is pretty close to a single group unconference

witty-crayon-22786 · Answer

< bitter ability 32190> would you prefer a separate meeting or using a portion of the existing meeting

bitter-ability-32190 · Answer

As long as there s space for those topics I don t really care upside down face

bitter-ability-32190 · Answer

An example being cross pollination of the debug adapter support or asset inference for Python I d love to drive support of those features outside of python

busy-vase-39202 · Answer

Sorry been in a meeting Catching up on the convo

busy-vase-39202 · Answer

Agree re this Creating an additional gathering that keeps all gatherings under 90 minutes is more effective at cultivating goodwill and good ideas than keeping people in their seats so long that they get restless out of steam or distracted by bodily needs After 90 minutes people need a break for bathroom food stretch mental reset An unconference format typically is giving those breaks every 30 90 minutes so it s not analogous One option could be to hold the retro meeting 15 30 minutes after the meetup Creating space for people to opt to attend one or the other while ensuring a needed break to those who attend both However keep in mind that the meetup already ends at 6 30pm London time so I think piggybacking like this has the risk of losing participants in Europe and beyond Overall I still think the best way to cultivate wide participation is to give this its own dedicated day and time at whatever cadence makes sense <https pantsbuild slack com archives C0D7TNJHL p1660681992017289 thread ts=1660680703 211899 amp cid=C0D7TNJHL>

busy-vase-39202 · Answer

Retros are inherently backward looking The meetups are forward looking There are topics that overlap but I think it s really worthwhile to separate out the here s what worked and didn t about X lately and the having reflected on what we learned at the retro here s the new approach we re considering for X conversations It s not duplication it s different phases of strategy development and implementation