#general
- m
mammoth-pharmacist-54215
11/09/2015, 6:26 PM*agreed - m
mammoth-pharmacist-54215
11/09/2015, 6:27 PMI’ll bring up the clean-all->clean during standup today I know we have tons of stuff here that calls clean-all, it would be nice to get an idea of impact. Ideally I’d like to get rid of most of the clean-all’s living in scripts. - m
mammoth-pharmacist-54215
11/09/2015, 6:28 PMthanks @happy-kitchen-89482 - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:30 PMwell, I wouldn’t get rid of clean-all for a long, long time, if ever - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:30 PMIt’s been around too long - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:30 PMbut I would like to demote it to an alias of clean - m
mammoth-pharmacist-54215
11/09/2015, 6:31 PMMakes sense. It’s a good time to look at some of our scripts internally though and try and figure out if clean-all is still really needed. I’m pretty sure we use it in some places that probably hurt us rather than help us. - m
mammoth-pharmacist-54215
11/09/2015, 6:31 PMby internally I mean @twitter - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:40 PMYeah - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:40 PMIt’s just confusing - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:40 PMbecause what does “all” even mean, now that we have caches and so on - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:41 PMclean can intuitively mean “clean up my build products”, and nuke can intuitively mean “restore my system to a state as if pants had never been run on it”. - r
rough-minister-58256
11/09/2015, 6:41 PMthere seems to be a social stigma with pants and clean-all that is perpetuated by all of the cache related bugs users have encountered over time. I’d love to see us take a more aggressive stance on eliminating the need to ever do a clean-all in the first place by way of hardening against these types of bugs. this is feedback we’ve heard about pants vs blaze e.g. ‘in all my years at google I never once had to do a `blaze clean-all`’ etc. - r
rough-minister-58256
11/09/2015, 6:42 PMjust changing the names etc likely not going to strategically address the real issue - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:42 PMAgreed, but is not the purpose of changing the name. - r
rough-minister-58256
11/09/2015, 6:42 PMsure - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:42 PMAlso, at Foursquare no one cleans, except in dire situations. - m
mammoth-pharmacist-54215
11/09/2015, 6:42 PMyeah, to me the point of changing the name is just having the name more clearly reflect what it’s actually doing. - r
rough-minister-58256
11/09/2015, 6:42 PMoh nice - r
rough-minister-58256
11/09/2015, 6:43 PMsure sure - m
mammoth-pharmacist-54215
11/09/2015, 6:43 PM@rough-minister-58256: I suspect that people clean here more out of habit and paranoia than need. - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:43 PMWe used to have to tell people “we don’t know why that’s happening, does it recur after a clean”, but that’s a lot less common than it used to be. - r
rough-minister-58256
11/09/2015, 6:43 PMI just worry that by adding a ‘nuke’ or ‘wash’ option, we’re goign to further perpetuate the stigma - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:43 PMIt does still happen though. - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:43 PMYeah, that is a concern - r
rough-minister-58256
11/09/2015, 6:44 PMI will be really concerned whern we start seeing ‘pants nuke’ all over the place in scripts etc - m
mammoth-pharmacist-54215
11/09/2015, 6:45 PMHopefully you will actively call them out in RB’s if you see it @rough-minister-58256 - r
rough-minister-58256
11/09/2015, 6:45 PMnot likely it will be on any of our radars until too late - m
mammoth-pharmacist-54215
11/09/2015, 6:46 PM@happy-kitchen-89482: how did you guys transition from having clean-all be common place to only in dire circumstances? - h
happy-kitchen-89482
11/09/2015, 6:47 PMIncremental stability gains...